Perry: In this episode of the therapist experience, I’m speaking with Steven Unruh from Unruh Mediation. This is The Therapist Experience episode number eight. Welcome to The Therapist Experience. The podcast where we interview successful therapists about what it’s really like growing a private practice. I’m Perry Rosenbloom, the founder of Brighter Vision, and I’m excited to introduce our guest today Steven Unruh from Unruh Mediation. Steven, are you prepared to share your therapist experience?

Steven: Yes, I certainly am.

Perry: Alright, good to have you here Steven. Steven is a licensed psychotherapist and divorce mediator. Having been in the field of psychology and the speed resolution for over 30 years, he is an expert in resolving divorce, family disputes, and constructive uncoupling. By collaborating with other professionals, attorneys, quadras, and CPAs, Steven brings every divorce to completion no matter how complicated. As a team the divorcing couple is led through the entire process resolving issues of pensions, custody, and a parenting plan, alimony, and investments, all without ever entering the courtroom. Steven’s father was a minister and therefore taught him that loving and helping others was always a priority. After college he moved to Oakland, California to work with under-represented kids, and then eventually to Southern California to study and further his training in psychology. He is a single dad with three adult young men and loves hiking, dancing, and Sudoku. Steven, I gave a little overview of you there, but why don’t you take a minute, fill in the gaps from that introduction and tell us a little bit more about you personally and about your practice?

Steven: Well, yes. Growing up in Minnesota I really learned the value of hard work. It was exciting if you were able to start shoveling your driveway at the age of five.

Perry: Oh, my goodness. Well, we got our son going at the age of three here, so…

Steven: Yeah, yeah. I mean it wouldn’t last long. Snow is very heavy. But nonetheless, I grew up in an environment where working hard was a good thing and I love nature. I grew up in the outdoors so I still love nature. And raising three boys in California, it’s a little different. There’s not as much fish out here but they nonetheless love to be outdoors and love snowboarding, rock climbing, and all that good stuff.

Perry: In Southern California there’s plenty of snowboarding, rock climbing, and fun outdoor stuff, but– You guys don’t have lakes out there as much, but you certainly are right out there at the ocean for fishing.

Steven: Absolutely, yeah. We’re near the water and that’s perfectly fine, yup.

Perry: Do you guys ever go out and do some deep sea fishing out there?

Steven: Well, no. Hahaha. I love to fish, I really do. And I usually do it when I go back either to Colorado, or Minnesota, or Michigan, back to mid-west. Deep sea fishing, those boats and I don’t work well together.

Perry: No need to explain any further. I know exactly where you’re coming from there.

Steven: That’s right.

Perry: Well Steven, let’s dive into your story some more and let’s find out more about Steven and the “Why?” behind you. So you work with couples or the uncoupling process going through divorce mediation without ever entering a courtroom. How did you end up in this sort of niche? can you share a little bit more about your story and explain to us how you got into this specific niche market?

Steven: Yeah. Well you know, I think– I’ve been in the field of counseling and psychology for a long time. And to be honest I really just wanted another challenge, another dimension, to my business. And then sadly I went through a divorce and we actually had a mediator. Now he was a well-known litigator but he advertised himself as a mediator so we didn’t have to pay for two. We just together, my wife at that time, paid for his services and very soon I saw that he was a horrible mediator. Hahaha.
Perry: Oh, gosh. He had more of a litigator side to him than a mediator?

Steven: Right. He knew how to fight but he really was not skilled in resolving conflict or even– In a way even in communication it was pretty interesting. So through that experience I thought I’ve been mediating with teens, and parents, and family, and marriages, for 20 years. So I began to investigate mediation, I fell in love with it, I went through some training through the city attorney’s office in Los Angeles, and I really shifted. I do a little bit of counseling still, but 90% of my time is spent in mediation and I love it. It’s fascinating. It involves money, finance, pensions. It involves law, custody issues. I really enjoy it.

Perry: When did you make the shift from being more of a generalist counselor to focusing specifically and pretty much exclusively on mediation?

Steven: I started the process about seven years ago and then five years ago– My practice grew pretty fast in terms of getting referrals and connecting, networking, and such. So for about five years the majority of my time has been with mediation.

Perry: Steven, one thing I find pretty fascinating is, you know, as a counselor you’re going to see clients on a recurring basis. On a weekly basis or twice a week basis or whatever they need. So that adds a sense of stability to your business. As a mediator, please correct me if I’m wrong, but I would imagine that there’s not much recurring business after you go through mediation with somebody. Is that accurate?

Steven: Right. Hopefully, yeah, your job is to not see them again. Interesting thing is that in a way, counseling– When you go through a recession, when the economy is tough, people don’t buy furniture, they don’t buy art, and they tend to let go of some of the extras. And that involves counseling even if they really need it. And honestly what I found is my income has been much more stable being a mediator. Because when people start the process they finish it. They’re going to stay with you. It might take them six months or eight months to go through the whole mediation process, depending upon how complicated their situation is, but I actually have found it to be financially more stable for my family.

Perry: Well, that’s fantastic. And I’m sure whether it’s a recession or not people are going to be going through divorces.

Steven: That’s right. That’s really true, yeah. They are. That unfortunately doesn’t change.

Perry: So Steven, a lot of our clients get referrals from doctor’s offices or other medical professionals. I would imagine that’s not the case for you and instead, do you find more that you get referrals from CPAs and attorneys and that sort of network?

Steven: Somewhat. The majority of my referrals actually come from my colleagues. Marriage and family therapists, psychologists, and social workers. Because those are the people in the trenches really working with families. They’ll have a situation where suddenly it’s exploded, someone’s moved out, they filed for divorce. And those really are my colleagues who refer to me. There are some doctors, there are some attorneys who don’t mediate. And yes, sometimes like a wealth manager or even a tax– It’s interesting, a tax CPA– Tax attorney. He’ll see people and they’ll say, “Well, we’re going to start filing separately next year.”

Perry: Well, that says something.

Steven: Yeah.
Perry: Well Steven, you’ve been in private practice, what? Is it about 17 years? Is that right?

Steven: I’ve been licensed since 89. So actually 26 years.

Perry: So licensed almost my entire life there? Haha. That’s a very long and a very successful career in private practice. But it wasn’t always like this for you. As an entrepreneur I’m sure there have been moments throughout your career where you hit a wall. Where you’ve hit a major challenge, a major road block. And it could have been really easy to just throw in the towel, but you didn’t. Can you share with us that moment in time and share with us how you overcame those struggles?

Steven: Good question. I think that when you know how to quit, that’s actually a good characteristic. Quitting to me is different than– You use the phrase, throwing in the towel. To me throwing in the towel is being defeated. Quitting, to me at least, was changing something. Changing something up. I think because I’ve had kids it just wasn’t an option to stay home and watch TV. I couldn’t just sort of give up in that sense but the time that was most difficult. Where I’ve thought about disappearing in Fiji somewhere. That was when I rented non-profit. And I love the non-profit. We served kids in Pasadena and it was unique. We had a program for kids who harmed themselves. But running it was not my forte. I soon found out that it involved budgeting, and planning, and training, and a board, and grant writing. And I hit a place where I realized it was not going to make it and I was burning out. So a good friend of mine gave me some advice and he said, “Well, you need to do what you know how to do. You need to use your skills.” That seems really basic but at the time I was thinking of selling insurance. So his advice was helpful because it was like, “No, do what you love! Do what you know how to do!” And that transitioned me into getting rid of the clinic and focusing at that time, it was quite a while ago, focusing on my private practice. And then I developed kind of a niche in that field of marriage counseling, specifically with couples. So that was a tough time but I got some good advice and I learned that it was okay to quit, to leave my clinic.

Perry: And Steven, knowing how to quit and doing what you know how to do and what you love to do sort of go hand in hand with what we’ve seen in the therapist entrepreneurial experience, where people, a lot of therapists, start off and they’re trying to see everyone and anyone under the sun. They’re generalists, they work with anyone that will come in their door. But you need to know how to quit that and focus on a specific niche that you know how to work with and know how to be the best in that market that you can possibly be. And it seems like once you quit the non-profit and focus specifically on this and then even quit general counseling to focus specifically on mediation, that’s when you saw your business really just skyrocket. Is that correct?

Steven: It is. It’s so interesting, when I go to networking groups and I hear people stand up and say, “Oh, I work with kids. I work with families and I’m kind of a generalist.” I don’t remember them. They don’t stand out. But if someone stands up and says, “I work with specifically addicts struggling with this.” Or, “I specialize in teams. Just teams on drugs or something.” Those are very specific things but you remember who those people are, and when I come across referral I know who to call.

Perry: Exactly, you know how to refer somebody. When someone specialize in something you know how to refer them. It’s easier to refer them. So when an MFT in your area is dealing with a couple and they’re knowing how to quit. They’re ready to start filing for divorce. They know that now is a time to refer them to Steven, because Steven will be able to help them through this next phase. So knowing who you are, who you service, that will just make things so much easier for your practice because people can refer you and you can refer others better as well.

Steven: That’s right. You have to stand out. I mean, there’s so many things that are vying for our attention just constantly and so then even as clinicians your colleagues are all wanting referrals, you have to find a way that makes yourself unique and stand out and be noticed.

Perry: 100 percent, Steven. I could not agree more. So Steven, you work in mediation now and 17-20 years ago you were working in a non-profit. So journey along that way has had so many twists and turns, and ups and downs. And one thing that we–

Steven: I thought you weren’t born. How did you know?

Perry: Hahahahaha. You know, it’s the entrepreneurial journey. So I aged myself there. I’m not sure that’s good or bad. So often we see therapists really struggle in the early days with pricing themselves well. Would you mind maybe sharing with our audience what your current hourly rate is and what was your journey to that rate?

Steven: That’s a great question. Yeah, the journey to that rate. Right now for doing counseling my fee is 150 per hour and that in Los Angeles seems to be pretty standard. There are some people who charge more and there’s actually a lot of colleagues that charge less but if you charge more than that you better be very, very good. I know people who charge an exorbitant fee for counseling and couple of them I would just not really trust or refer to. For myself, I think you have to look at what your colleagues are charging for your training. So if you’re newly licensed you’re needing clients and you’re going to have a variety of fees probably. When you’re newly licensed it could be from 70 to 100 dollars, 70 to 90. But at some point when you feel confident and you’re seeing people stay with you. A retention rate I think is really important. And then if you’re so busy that’s maybe kind of a clue that you’re not charging enough.

Perry: Supply and demand, right? Basic economics. If you’re so busy that you can barely keep your head on straight and you’re seeing seven clients a day, it’s time to raise those rates.

Steven: It is. You’re right.

Perry: So Steven, one thing I heard you mention a few times is networking groups. So for those of you who are not familiar, things such as BNI is a business networking group. I was a part of one back before Brighter Vision was Brighter Vision. When we were more of an internet marketing company and a standard website design company. I go to a referral group in Boulder and everyone stand up and give a 30 second spiel about themselves and who they are and what they focus on. That was a pretty good marketing channel for me but one thing we’ve seen that therapists struggle with is that. Marketing their business. So, can you share with our audience the single best marketing move that you’ve made for your practice and why do you feel that it’s worked so well?

Steven: I think there’s a couple things but one, right away that stands out, is being accountable. In other words, that’s not maybe in the direction of your question, whether I join the chamber of commerce or whether I volunteered in town or build the greatest website in the world, which I did through you guys. But really, a great marketing tool is being accountable. When I brought on a coach and she would say, “What happened? Why didn’t you get this done? What’s getting in the way? What are you worried about?” Or, “Well Steve, maybe you’re not spending your time wisely?” And even recently her and I listed all of the ways that I market myself and going through it I evaluated the time, the money, and the result. And two areas of marketing I just mixed, I just got rid of.

Perry: What were those two areas?

Steven: One of them was actually leading a class. Haha. It was a great experience. It was very high commitment. It was like four hours a week and it was teaching and leading a group of people. It was free, it was volunteer. But the commitment is for like four months and it was very time consuming. And I had sort of thought that this organization that I was a part of would generate referrals, and I did it for a year. And I got zero referrals. Haha.

Perry: What was the class on and what kind of was it–? So the class was taught through this organization, you said?

Steven: Right.

Perry: What were you teaching?

Steven: I was teaching how to survive divorce. It was a very good class and I was helping people. And I enjoyed that. It was a volunteer class in that sense. There probably are other classes that I could teach which would be more specific in terms of marketing. In another words, if I thought a class in a nearby community college it might be how to handle a narcissistic spouse. Now, I think that would be a great marketing tool.

Perry: I would agree with that.

Steven: Yeah, yeah. So I got some ideas and some things in the mix right now, but my accountability helped me evaluate where I was spending my time and what to do. Along with that, clearly a good website. A website that works, that’s fluid, that people enjoy looking at, and that has a variety of pieces to it. Whether it’s articles, or videos. And that’s with you guys, that’s with Brighter Vision. And I think that’s extremely important, when you have a good website.

Perry: I obviously agree that having a good website is really important because it effectively markets you but I want to take a step back and go back to what you were talking about with those classes, because there’s a really good marketing lesson in there. What was the name of the class you taught again?

Steven: Divorce recovery.

Perry: Divorce recovery. So at that point teaching people how to survive divorce?

Steven: Right.

Perry: The people who were in that class– If I’m going to just hazard a guess here. Those people are either already in the process of getting divorced, or already having gone through divorce. Would that be accurate?

Steven: Yes, exactly. You’re absolutely right.

Perry: So you’re catching people at a time when they could have used your services a few months ago or could hire you now but have likely already hired somebody else.

Steven: You know, that’s exactly right. It’s really a mix because people, even if they’re litigating, they can leave the court and sign up for mediation at any time. And I have actually a number of cases ongoing. I get a referral every so often when someone’s in court and they’re exhausted, their finances have been depleted and they decided to go into mediation. But in this class, and there were three or four classes because it’s continuing. So there were a number of groups over a year that I worked with. And yeah, either some of them had been divorced for a long time and they were kind of coming in for recovery because they never dealt with it. Others were coming in to the class with few of them not even certain as to whether or not they were going to get a divorce. But most of them were in the middle of it and in the process. You know what? It just wasn’t appropriate for me to be marketing myself.

Perry: And by that point it’s too late as well.

Steven: Yeah.

Perry: So it’s important that a good takeaway here would be, I think classes and teaching classes can work. Whether it’s in person classes, whether it’s webinars that you’re hosting. But you need to attract clientele at the right stage in the buying process.

Steven: You’re absolutely right. That’s absolutely perfect.

Perry: So Steven you were saying, how to deal with a narcissistic spouse. People who have a narcissistic spouse might be more prone to having a divorce down the road. So by teaching the class on that you’re, A, providing value for them, you’re helping them, you obviously don’t want them to get divorced. You’re teaching them how to deal and have coping skills and mechanisms but there is going to be a percentage of that class that likely will go through a divorce. And when they do hopefully you will be top of mind and they will reach out and be like, “Hey Steven, you really provided a lot of great advice to us and it helped us but this just isn’t working.”, “Let’s call Steven and have him mediate our divorce so that we can end this amicably and in as peaceful fashion as possible.”

Steven: You’re absolutely right. And not only that, I think over time teaching a class for a period of time you become known and they have friends. I mean, all of us, every one of us has a friend somewhere who is in a really complicated difficult and possibly emotionally abusive marriage and when we go to a class like that we think, “Oh, I’m going to go home right now and call my brother.” Or whoever it is. And you know someone in that situation. So that’s another good marketing device and it’s been really important for me to evaluate my time and the groups that I attend, and some of the marketing groups that I was in that for whatever reason just referrals didn’t work.

Perry: So Steven, you mentioned two things that you cut out of your plan. What are two things that you and your coach found– Or one thing that you and your coach found that worked really well for you over the last year when it comes to marketing?

Steven: Video blogging is one of them.

Perry: Video blogging? Really?

Steven: Yeah. Video blogging has been great. I just finished a video on why men don’t have friends and it’s perfect title. People are like, “What?” It’s a short video and I just get into it and go, “You think you have friends. You have barbecues, ta, da, da…” I get people’s attention with it but then really what I talk about is the fact that our friendships aren’t genuine and we hide and we have shame and honor. I have found video blogging to just be a way– Even though it doesn’t deal with mediation it gets my face out there.

Perry: Definitely. So do you record the videos yourself or do you hire somebody to record videos for you? How do you structure that?

Steven: In the beginning I had someone else do it, especially if it’s going to be like on my website. There’s a couple of them that have been professionally done, but now I’m kind of used to it and this last one I just sat down and did it and I thought it was perfect. Hahahaha. I thought it was good, yeah.

Perry: And so do you use Youtube to host them, I would imagine?

Steven: Yes.

Perry: Okay. One thing that I will put in the show notes today and will definitely put that, why men don’t have friends, video for you guys to see. But if you go to brightervision.com/session8 we’ll have the why men don’t have friends video and– Steven, I want you to check out another tool that I think you might find really valuable if you’re seeing video blogging work real well for you. There’s a company out there called Wistia, wistia.com. They changed their pricing model fairly recently to make it so that is much more affordable for small businesses. And instead of Youtube, you can still use Youtube but you’ll also host your video there and what they do– Something that’s really fantastic is they’ll allow you to put a lead generating box in your video. So you can put a box that says, “Enter your email here!” At the end of the video or, “Enter your email here!” Halway through, to continue watching. However you want to structure it. So that way you’re going to be able to generate more leads through every video you produce.

Steven: Well, that’s great.

Perry: Yeah, definitely check it out. It’s something that we’ve been meaning to sign up for here because we use a decent amount of videos in our marketing as well. Just haven’t gotten around to, but I’ve known about for a while and I think you’ll really like it. So Steven, you learned a ton through your time here. Growing your own private practice, working at non-profit. When you went to school you went to school to become a therapist. Not to get your MBA. But the way along your entrepreneurial journey here you have decided to open your own private practice and you’ve grown it into a thriving business. What’s the one thing that you wish you would have learned in school about starting your own business and starting your own private practice?

Steven: Everything. Hahaha. Meaning that there was nothing about having a business, having a private practice, about marketing. And unfortunately when I went to college I went to a good school in Minnesota but nobody– I kind of didn’t have any advice. I just sort of– I wasn’t raised by wolves but I didn’t have someone guiding me. So I went through college and never took the business class. So I missed that. That was an unfortunate thing that when I think about what I wished that I would have studied, I wish I would have studied business, and marketing, and finance. And so I think learning to have a budget is key for having any kind of successful business.

Perry: And did you learn to have a budget just trial through fire or were there resources that you washed or read to teach you this?

Steven: Yeah. It was through fire. Hahaha.

Perry: As the best lessons often are, aren’t they?

Steven: Yeah.

Perry: Well Steven, before we move on to my favorite part of the show, we’re going to take a quick break here for one of our weekly website tips from a Brighter Vision lead developer. We’ll be right back here in about 40 seconds.

This week’s website tip comes from Rachel Tschanz. A lead developer at Brighter Vision, a worldwide leader in custom therapist website design. To learn more go to www.brightervision.com.

Rachel: It’s important to know where and how all your potential and existing clients find out about you. One way to effectively track this is by using a different phone number on your website than your typical office line. You can use a Google Voice phone number or get a new phone number from a service like Grasshopper. This will allow you to track calls that came directly from your website and help you gauge the appropriate ROI, a return on investment of your website. For links of these resources please go to this week’s show notes at brightervision.com/session8.

Now back to our conversation with Perry and Steven.

Perry: Alright, Steven. Now we’re going to move into the final part of our interview. The part we like to refer to as brighter insights, where we can really distill down your experience and advice into little sound bites and quick answers that therapists can use to inspire, motivate, and excite them in growing their practice. Are you ready?

Steven: I am. I’m ready.

Perry: Alright. What or whom inspired you to become a mental health professional?

Steven: You know? My mom did. It was very interesting. I thought of this recently. When I was in high school she told me that my high school– I was 17 and she said, “Your school is offering training in pure counseling so that you would go to school and get training, and then you would stay after school and counsel your peers.” And I guess way back then she felt like I had a skill in that. So I did. I was counseling my peers. It was pretty interesting.

Perry: Moms know us best. Don’t they? Hahaha. What do you do to clear your head and get a fresh start in your day?

Steven: Oh yeah. Every day I sit on my couch. I kind of close the blinds so it’s sort of a little dark, and I just spend time meditating. Also praying. And I have a notepad next to me so that if something comes up like, “Oh, I got that interview today with Brighter Vision.” Or, “I got to call my dad.” I write it down and put it aside because otherwise I’ll be thinking about it. So I try to avoid being distracted. But I just have like a half an hour every morning and I just sort of calm down and kind of regulate myself and get ready for the day. It’s a good half hour.

Perry: Something crazy Steven. You’re the eight interview we’ve done and I am fairly certain that all eight of our interviewees have said that they meditate during the day.

Steven: Oh, wow.

Perry: How crazy is that? I mean, it’s definitely a great way to clear your head. Just, what are the chances?

Steven: That is very unusual.

Perry: I’ll be interested to see what happens when we get to episode 30 or 40 if we’re still on that track record. So Steven, What are some tools you’ve used to leverage the power of technology in your private practice so that technology is no longer a hurdle but is instead an asset for you?

Steven: I’m getting better at technology. I’m feeling more comfortable with it. I mean, really. A long time ago I was just so frustrated and thought that I couldn’t learn things. And I can. I’m not someone who’s more technically minded but whether it’s Dropbox and storing stuff, making my own video, networking on Facebook and getting into different groups and such. There’s just every avenue possible that I’m trying to investigate. And you gave me a great tip with this other organization Wistia. So yeah. I’m just trying to see what’s available.

Perry: What’s a quote that you hold near and dear? Something that has helped formulate your perspective on life or has helped inspire, motivate, or provide a guidance for you throughout your life?

Steven: Well, one of them might be, “Ask forgiveness later.” But that’s because I was a pastor’s kid. Yes. But that one doesn’t work anymore. Really, more seriously, a good quote– And I said this to my kids, would be, “If you want a life that most people don’t have, you have to do what most people don’t do.” And I think that’s so powerful. If I want something for myself. If I want security, or I want to travel, or I want just a sense of piece of mind, I have to do what most people are not willing to do. And I trained my kids that they have to be different. They have to study, they have to work hard. And it will pay off, but sitting around and playing video games– Unless you discover a new video game. Haha. But most of the time I said to them, “If you want a life that’s different then you have to be different.”

Perry: And you know Steven? That is such an entrepreneurs quote. As an entrepreneur you are doing something different. You have gone out and made this life for yourself. Made this business, build it from the ground up to be a successful thriving business. And that’s something that most people don’t have the guts to do. But every single person listening to this podcast, the Therapist Experience, understand that there’s a journey here and you are unique in the fact that you are going out and starting your own practice. And trying to learn and grow into something special. And grow into something that can provide support for you and your family while also helping others. And there’s such a great sense of gratification out of doing something like that.

Steven: There is, there is. Yeah, you’re right. Thank you.

Perry: Steven, if you can recommend one book to our audience what would that book be?

Steven: On the theme of what we’re talking about I love the book called “The Road Less Traveled” By Scott Peck. Because it’s my theme. The book is about people getting counseling and to actually investigate yourself, to be honest with yourself. It really is in our culture the road less traveled. It’s the narrow road. So I love that concept that if I’m going to be accountable in my life. If I’m going to be an honest and truthful person. If I’m going to raise my kids in a loving way I’m going to have to discipline myself. And that’s not the common way to, I think, live life. People tend to be a little bit undisciplined. So I love that book, “The Road Less Traveled”. It’s a great concept.

Perry: And listeners will all have this quote, the book, and all the tools that we mentioned here in this week’s show notes which you can find at brightervision.com/session8. Alright, Steven. Last and final question and it’s hands down my favorite on this show. If you moved to a new city tomorrow, you didn’t know a single person and all you had with you was your computer and 100 dollars to start a new private practice, what would you do on your very first day?

Steven: I would join the chamber of commerce. Hahaha.

Perry: Why?

Steven: Well– Or I would join a networking group. Like, Wildfire is another one that’s out there. Because that will give me instant relationships. That’s what I would do is I would seek out a influential group in town. I’d have to kind of ask around and that that’s a part of the community. So I would enter into a group that is in the community but people that already have a networking concept like the chamber of commerce. And I’m in the Pasadena Chamber of Commerce and that’s been an excellent group. I’ve made great friends. That’s a great networking thing. So that’s what I would do.

Perry: Alright, great. Thank you so much Steven. Do you have any parting advice for our listeners?

Steven: Oh, I knew you were going to say that. Hahahaha.

Perry: Hahaha. It’s okay if you don’t. You’ve shared so much great value here. It comes to a point where it’s just like, “Man, I’m tapped out.”

Steven: Yeah, yeah, thanks. You know? I guess in sort of thinking through our team to encapsulate the advice it would be that we have to be willing to reinvent ourselves. I guess that would be a– And I didn’t prepare for that but– To reinvent yourself. And it doesn’t mean that I’m going to join a rock band. Hahaha. No. I’m not going to do something ridiculous but that in order to stay with the culture, in order to be current, in order for my kids to like me and still talk to me, you have to be up on what is happening in the world. What’s going on around you. And I think you have to be able to stand up to those challenges whether it’s technology, whether it’s economic environment that we’re in. I just think you have to be open to change.

Perry: Knowing how to reinvent yourself, it goes back to knowing how to quit. You need to know as an entrepreneur when it’s time to shift. When it’s time to pivot. And with us as Brighter Vision, we didn’t start off as a therapist website design company. We started off doing internet marketing because that’s what my background was in. So I’m repelling the pavement trying to find clients that I would do search engine optimization for after I quit my full time job going door to door. And it worked but after a while it didn’t and I had to reinvent myself and reinvent my company.

Steven: Yes.

Perry: Do grow what it is today without knowing that. Now taking that scary step of reinventing yourself and quitting on right things to focus on better things.

Steven: Right, right. And you have to know– You’re right. You look at what you did. You evaluated. You made an evaluation. You shifted and made those appropriate changes. And people are afraid of change. They really are. They’re afraid of change. They stick with what the status quo is and I actually had a client one time. His business was just falling apart and it was affecting them. And he said, “Well, I’m going to down with the ship.” And I went, “I guess you are.” You know? And it might be your marriage too. But that was such a horrible philosophy. So anyways, I don’t want to end on a bad philosophy but that philosophy was killing him, and I think the opposite is that I am open to new things, to change, to growth, and that’s exciting.

Perry: Steven, this has been so much fun. Where can our listeners find you to connect and learn more about you?

Steven: Oh right. Just my name. My website is stevenunruh.com and Unruh is sort of a funny name. It means wrestled in German. But it’s U-N-R-U-H. And you’ll find about right there.

Perry: Okay. If you want to learn more about Steven and all the great resources he mentioned, and to find his website and everything else, we’ll have that in this week’s show notes at brightervision.com/session8. Steven thank you so much for being so generous with your time, your expertise, and all of your knowledge. Listeners to the Therapist Experience so greatly appreciate the advice that you provide and the Therapist Experience that you have shared. Thank you again.

Steven: Thank you, Perry. It’s been a pleasure and I’m so happy to know you and work with you.

Perry: Thanks, Steven. It’s been blast and, Steven and I got to meet in person a few months ago in a LA Camp Tibet and it’s always so much fun getting to meet our clients in person and get to know more about them. So Steven, as always a pleasure.

Steven: Okay, wonderful. Thank you Perry.

Perry: Thank you so much for tuning in today. If you have a question for us you can email it to us at [email protected] and if you’re interested in launching a website, don’t hesitate to reach out for us. Brighter Vision is the worldwide leader in custom therapist website design. For just 59 bucks a month you get a website that’s as unique as your practice. Unlimited tech support and complementary SEO so people find you online. To learn more you can email us at [email protected] or just head on over to our website brightervision.com and write us a note through one of our contact forms. That does it for this week’s episode. Thank you so much for letting us into your ears, into your car, wherever you’re listening to us today and we will see you next week.