TTE 30: Finding a Niche Within a Niche & Standing Out From the Crowd
Dana McNeil is a member of three different networking groups with her fellow therapists, psychologists and MFTs. But as opposed to blending in, Dana stands out and is able to be referred to more easily thanks to her being a Gottman Method Level 3 trained therapist, something nobody else in her group can claim. This has made her unique, memorable, and makes it easier for people to refer to her.
Best Marketing Move for Business
- Joining networking groups & masterminds with her peers.
Links & Resources Mentioned in This Episode
Thanks to Dana for joining me this week. Until next time!
TranscriptClick here to read the Transcript
Dana: Absolutely. Thanks for inviting me to do so.
Perry: So glad to have you on the show here, Dana. Dana’s desire in therapy is to provide safe space for her clients to be themselves and rediscover their strengths as an individual and as a partner. She works with all aspects of romantic relationships from dating to premarital counseling, having a baby together, LGBTQI couples, and how to divorce and effectively co-parent. She’s a Gottman method level three trained therapist who received her master’s in counseling psychology with a specialization in marriage and family therapy from National University in 2015. Dana is currently in PSYD program at Southern California University. Dana, I gave a little overview of you there but why don’t you take a minute, fill in the gaps from that introduction and tell us a little bit more about you personally and about your practice?
Dana: Well, me personally, I am in my 40s and I am going to a brand new career. So I left the corporate world behind and pursued my life passion which was to become a therapist. So it’s been an incredible journey so far, kind of changing mind shape from somebody that had a company car and worked from home, and had this corporate life with the very steady paycheck, to somebody that’s like, okay, what’s the next half of my life going to look like? What do I want to do for myself that has meaning and purpose, and how am I going to make this happen?
Perry: I love it Dana. So tell us about your previous career, what were you doing?
Dana: So completely different than what I’m doing now. I was a property damage claims adjuster for an insurance company.
Perry: Oh my goodness, I mean, you’re kind of providing therapy there too, aren’t you?
Dana: It’s true, yeah. When we had talked about one of the things that you had mentioned earlier, when we talked about this interview is, what inspired you to want to do this? And it’s funny because as part of my job I would often be a first responder to catastrophes. And I went to Hurricane Sandy and I went to Tescalusa and one of the things that I always found so amazing is I would go to these policy holders and obviously a tree had fallen on their home, or hurricane had come through, or a tornado had torn their roof of. And I couldn’t get to my work. They would be like, let me take you down into the basement and show you where I hid. And, this is my closet, we hid in this. And I’m kind of like, I can see that, there’s a tree there. And I couldn’t get to my job until I let them process their trauma. And that’s really how I started to realize, oh, this is what I want to do. I really find this part empowering. Being a witness for someone and helping them navigate what has been this incredibly impactful event in their life, and not knowing how they should process it or who they should talk to about it. Or even if anybody would care, because everybody else in town was going through the same thing. So often I was the first one that they had an opportunity to even tell their experience to, and I really found that it was impactful, and it was necessary to get my job done. So it really inspired me to kind of like, look at this as a career.
Perry: So when you’re going to all these areas and helping people process all these traumatic events, what made you decide to focus more than in your private practice, on relationships counseling and helping couples go through challenging times or prepare for more challenging times?
Dana: So I knew that I was interested in psychology and I knew that I wanted to impact people’s lives, and at the same time in my own personal life, because we have personal lives outside of our works obviously, I had met and fallen in love with someone that lived in another state. So we decided that we’re going to be the unicorns that get therapy before we need it. So before we get into this relationship and he’d possibly move here to San Diego, that I wanted to make sure we are a good fit. Long distance relationships are difficult. How do we navigate those and how do we anticipate what life is going to be like if he makes this big commitment, coming to San Diego and changing his whole world. So I had started researching and investigating what’s the best kind of couples therapy that’s out there. And because I was that insurance minded kind of black and white thinker for part of my life, I wanted an evidence based therapy and I stumbled on to Gottman and fortunately or unfortunately there wasn’t that many Gottman therapists in San Diego at the time. And I’m like, you know what, if I’m going to do this thing and go into therapy I’m really digging this Gottman therapy, and maybe that’s good segway into all of this. And I am happy to say that it is something that I’m very passionate about. I was able to use it in my own life and I’m happy to say it gave me a lot of tools in my personal relationship and I am able to tell clients with authenticity that it’s something that’s impacted me and I know I can do something to impact them.
Perry: Fantastic. And that’s so important, to have that perspective. We’ve heard so many great things about the Gottman Method. It’s definitely one of the most popular ones out there right now. And have you seen an increase in the number of Gottman certified therapists out in San Diego since you went down that path?
Dana: I’ve seen more therapists interested in it. Also, I’m in a few consultation groups and I often hear some of the therapists say that they are a little intimated by it because there are over 50 different interventions that we can use as a Gottman therapist. So sometimes people are like, oh my gosh, there’s so much to learn, there’s so many tools, how do you navigate it all, it feels like it’s so structured. I find it freeing to have that structure because at least I know some areas that I can present tools with my client, and then I can provide my own creativity. And for me it’s a perfect blend. I wouldn’t say that there’s as many therapists practicing it that are on Gottman referral network as there could be. For some reason there’s not 10 of us in San Diego that are on the referral network, but there are definitely people that are interested in it and refer clients to seek out that type of therapy, so that’s been good for me.
Perry: Well Dana, let’s take a step back here. We love taking a step back during these interviews and seeing your entrepreneurial story and your journey. You started off in corporate America, had a very different life then. And now you’re a therapist and an entrepreneur at that, which makes things so much more challenging. But let’s go back to a point in your career as a therapist and as an entrepreneur where you could have called it quits, where you were just as low as you could possibly be in your journey in private practice and you were just ready to throw in the towel. And then can you share with us more importantly how you overcame that adversity and persevered through?
Dana: I very clearly remember because I’ve only had my intern number for a little over a year and I was using most of my savings to live on, and I had a whole one client, and it was a referral from my supervisor who only takes insurance. So I had been seeing clients for their co-case, because those were the only referrals and sources that I had. And I was like, what am I doing? I can totally go back to the corporate world and have a nice retirement and rebuild back up my savings. And I just had a real heart to heart with my husband and he reminded of that’s not where your passion is and that this is temporary and this is growing things. And just like you had to learn how to do your corporate job and become an expert at that field, you need to give yourself the time and patience to make this happen for you now. So just dig in and remember why it is that you’re doing this.
Perry: But gosh, that digging in can just be so challenging sometimes because you just don’t know. It’s like, hey, am I going do dig in, if I keep digging in, at what point have I dug in too much? When do you feel like you moved past that and were able to successfully look back and say, hey, digging in, that was the right call there and we persevered through this time?
Dana: I wouldn’t say that I’ve totally have made it all the way through. I feel like I’m more on the home stretch. I’m down to 60 hours and eight weeks of supervision before I can turn in my hours to the BBS to sit for my final license. And there are moments where I’m like, wow, I don’t have many clients this week and I don’t take insurance, I can’t take insurance. So it’s not like I have a pool of resources coming in and it’s me. It’s really the time where I just need to find it. Whatever that source is for me that day and different days it’s different things. Sometimes it’s going for a walk, sometimes it’s making sure that I do my morning miracle routine. I’ve heard you talk about before where I have a blessings journal and I practice yoga, and I meditate, or I call my mom, or I go with a friend for coffee. It’s whatever I need in that moment that just being present that this is temporary, and I have seen so many things happen in the last year to me that I couldn’t have imagined when I was still that corporate person standing next to somebody’s house that has been decimated by a tornado, knowing that this journey has been so impactful for me both personally and other people that I’ve encountered in life.
Perry: Love that Dana. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you’ve grown your practice to this point though, and how you’ve gone from that one client to seeing a more of a steady stream of clients. And it fluctuates week to week. Can you share with us some of the marketing tactics that you’ve implemented? Because California, there’s a lot of MFTs out there. How have you been able to attract clients to your practice and differentiate yourself?
Dana: I have been so blessed to have a lot of referrals from my other clients. And every time I get a call from someone that says, so yeah, my friend so and so told me that you really helped their marriage and I want to come in and meet with you. And honestly hands down that is my biggest source of referrals and every day that I get one of those I’m like, how did that happen? Really, you like me? Awesome. I mean, obviously I don’t say that in a phone conversation but I have just been so fortunate to really make a connection with my clients and to show them obviously in a way that we practice with each other that I really do care and that I understand what’s going on in the world and birds of the feather flock together, right? So if I’m having some similar situations in my life or I’m going through something I might talk to my friends about it, or my family members. And they’re like, well, you seem like you have a lot of things going on in your life and your relationship seems better. We want some of that. And they’ll refer them to me, and it really has been the most impactful way for me to get new clients. That and consultation groups. I have been fortunate enough to meet some really amazing therapists who are a little bit intimidated by couples therapy sometime, and in my enthusiasm and talking about Gottman Therapy has made them feel confident to send me some referrals. So I’m blessed every day with that.
Perry: I completely agree. We still get butterflies here and it’s so exciting whenever we get a client referral. And I don’t think that excitement ever goes away because it’s like, hey, we did such a great job for you and you appreciate that and you trust us so much that you’re going to refer a colleague to us or a friend to us, or your significant other to us. So I think that’s one of the most rewarding parts about just being in business is getting those client referrals and someone saying, yes, they treated me well and they treat me well, they’re great, go with them! Or, Dana did such a great job for my marriage, you need to speak with her, she’s phenomenal. But tell us more about those consultation groups if you don’t mind. I’d love to dig into that a little more and what those look like, and yeah, if you can just share us some more details about that?
Dana: Sure, yeah. I’m in three very different consultation groups so all of them are unique and all of them are equally important to me. The first is we’re in a business consultation group, right? We’re small business owners and unfortunately I didn’t get a lot of training in that and my master’s program on how to be a successful therapist. I understand theory and I get a lot of how to do a proper reflection and to help guide my clients to find their own answers. But how do I get the phone to ring? How do I manage my paperwork? How do I build properly? How do I set my fees? So one of my consultation groups is just all about business and there we had goals that we set and every time we meet, we meet once a month and they hold us accountable. So I got to come back next week and go, remember how I said I was going to get my content page done on my website? Yeah. So there’s a built in kind of a peer pressure that it is something that I find helpful that kind of spur me in wanting to do this stuff that I don’t necessarily love.
Perry: Is that group exclusively therapists or is it other business owners as well?
Dana: We’re all therapists. I mean, I suppose if anybody else wanted to join us they’d be welcome but it’s a group of therapists and psychologists that we have this common interest of how do we manage the business aspect of our practice.
Perry: And how did you find that group?
Dana: Talking to other therapists, posting notes on Facebook social pages, word of mouth. San Diego is a fairly small therapy community as I’m finding out. And there’s always somebody that’s looking for a group to join or wants some support. It can be very isolating to be a therapist. So I have found some really amazing people that just want a space to connect and run things past each other.
Perry: Fantastic. And so you’re in a consultation group with other therapists, psychologists about growing a business, what do you feel was some of the best advice that you got from a group like that?
Dana: One of my colleagues had mentioned that they were going to be doing a speaking engagement. And a topic came up, should we be asking to be paid for the speaking engagement? And as an intern I was like, what do you mean? There’s a possibility that you can get paid to speak? It’s not just an opportunity to try to let people know who you are? What a concept. So we talked about, we’ll think about all the things that you’re doing to prepare for this speech. You might have to do some research or going to have to do some copies to hand out materials. You’re going to have to take time away from your clients to prepare for this speech. You’re going to travel there. What if you have to stay overnight in a hotel? So just this entire world opened up to me. It’s like, these are things I never even thought of. I’m still so new in my career and yet I was so grateful that a seasoned person has thought about these things and laid ideas out and presented things to me that it was okay to expect that. It’s possible that down the road that might be something that you look at. So I really appreciated these opportunities to hear from wiser, more accomplished therapists about what they’ve been doing and what works for them. And just some new things to think about.
Perry: And what was the final decision? Did this individual decide to pursue payment for her or his speaking engagement?
Dana: She did and they didn’t offer as much as she had asked but they found an amount that they compromised on and that felt terrific for everybody.
Perry: That’s fantastic. Getting paid to speak and then also getting clients from it. I mean, it’s as great as it could be.
Dana: Total rock star moment, yep.
Perry: So tell us about some other consultation groups that you’re in?
Dana: So another consultation group that I’m in is with other therapists, there’s some social workers, psychologists, MFTs, I’m the only intern in the group. And there’s just a varying amount of experience and we are there to talk about cases. So we will bring in what’s the case that you’re struggling with right now, or, where are you feeling that you need some support. Or, hey, I need a safe space to look at how I’m bringing my own stuff into this session and maybe that’s not why this is not feeling like it’s going well. So that’s a consultation group to just, let’s talk about our cases and clients that are challenging for us and why is it so challenging, and have either of you seen this before? Or, this is your area of expertise, how would you approach it? So that’s been extremely beneficial, just to have a place to bring those cases in, by the kind of winging harness.
Perry: And how often does that group meet?
Dana: We meet every two weeks.
Perry: And are you a part of any other consultation groups?
Dana: The third one is one that I actually started and it’s for sort of new therapists. So we are all have had our licenses for one year or less and we’re just navigating support for that journey of being an intern because the struggle was real. So I’m getting those 3000 hours in field overwhelming and challenging and so we spent a lot of time providing each other support.
Perry: And how often does that group meet?
Dana: We meet once a month.
Perry: And are those only three you’re a part of?
Dana: That’s enough for now.
Perry: Just want to make sure. So three consultation groups, one with new therapists where you talk about, commiserate– But that’s probably the wrong word but bond together over the struggles of getting all your hours which is certainly a challenging feet. Another one is every two weeks with LCSWs and other MFTs, talking about cases, and another one is once a month with other therapists and psychologists which sort of becomes like a business mastermind, is that accurate?
Dana: Yes, perfect.
Perry: Perfect. So I want to talk about this a little more because I think there’s a lot of value in here and what you’re doing is really, really just so smart. From the perspective of the monthly mastermind, I personally was a part of a mastermind as well years ago now at this point. But it was a weekly mastermind of two other business owners and it completely changed my business. And there’s no chance that Brighter Vision would be what it is today if it wasn’t for that mastermind. So masterminds can just be so incredibly valuable. Just like you mentioned the accountability. Hey, I said I was going to do that this month. I didn’t do it. Oh man, I’m going to have to go and face everybody in a week because I didn’t do that. And I’m going to have to tell everyone I didn’t do that, that’s scary.
Dana: Yes, it’s mortifying.
Perry: Yeah, so that’s the encouragement right there. It’s like, hey, I better get on the ball with this. And then another one talking about cases, making you more professional, increasing your professional awareness and allowing you to provide a better service to your clients. And another one’s a new therapist. Now MFTs, and I might be wrong with the statistics, I’ve heard it all over the place, but I’ve heard that there are more MFTs in the state of California than the rest of the 49 states combined.
Dana: No pressure, thanks Perry. Love that, thank you. Hahaha.
Perry: No, no, no. Here’s what I think is a really important takeaway here is you’ve gone to these groups not only as an MFT but as a Gottman Method level three trained therapist. So you’re bringing a different perspective and a different level of expertise than your fellow MFTs might be bringing. So what that’s allowing you to do is not only grow your business, and correct me if I’m wrong here, not only grow your business through the mastermind and through just networking everything, but you’re different so it makes it easier for people to refer to you because they know what you specialize in. And they know how you can help their potential clients and help your potential clients, is that accurate?
Dana: Yes, that’s also what’s terrifying as an intern too. Excellent point is that one of the things I keep hearing as an intern is you have to have your niche, you have to have your niche, you need to know what your niche is. And it’s been an interesting journey that as an intern I knew I liked Gottman but is that really my niche? And if I start promoting myself as this Gottman therapist, am I missing number one opportunities to get other clients? Because the reality is I need to grow my practice. Or do I just want to go down this path and like suck it up for a while knowing that it will take a while longer to get these clients that are specifically coming for your niche. So that’s been an interesting journey as well and I’m kind of glad that you brought that up because yeah, I am different and I am at the point now where I’m embracing that, yeah, I’m Gottman. But at the beginning of it I was like, but I’ll take some ADHD kids too.
Perry: Absolutely, and you know, the beauty of the nicheing, and I totally understand that fear. I need to grow my business and if I just say I’m Gottman– Haha. I love that, I’m Gottman. Am I going to be missing out on all the other clients? It’s going to take me so much longer to build my business. But in my experience and in everything I have read, and more importantly in the hundreds of conversations I’ve had with other therapists, about 29 other on this show, by nicheing you’re going to be potentially growing your business faster. And here’s why. That group you’re going to, how many other people do you feel are in that group, are in those three groups combined, rough estimation?
Dana: How many total in the three groups? Maybe like 30 to 35.
Perry: 30 to 35 in total? And how many are Gottman trained?
Dana: One person is level one and one person is level two.
Perry: And then you?
Dana: Yes, and then there’s me.
Perry: You stand out and you’re level three. So when somebody wants to refer they’re going to know who Dana is. Dana McNeil, yeah, she’s Gottman level three. She stands out, she’s not just another MFT. She’s a Gottman level three. So I know how to refer to her. I’ve shared this story on the podcast before. A business referral group I was a part of–
Dana: I like it Perry, can you do all my marketing for me?
Perry: Yeah, we try. Hahahaha. But it’s totally true, you stand out and so a business group I was a part of before Brighter Vision really existed, it was a group of local professionals here in Boulder and this always stands out to me, and I’ve shared this anecdote before. There’s a financial planner there who’s a good friend of mine and of my family’s. And he always stood up. I was in this group for three years and over those three years I’d say probably about 15 people were there with me at least two of those three years. So I’ve heard everybody give their 60 seconds pitch every single time, every single week. At least 20 to 30 people. And here’s Dan’s, the financial planner. And financial planner’s diamond dozen, right? My name is Dan Schultz, I’m with the Ameriprise Financial. I work with women over the ages of 50 who have gone through a traumatic life event, who are nearly divorced or widowed and need to understand their finances and take control of their finances. I didn’t do it nearly as eloquently as he did but that’s who he specializes in. Now, obviously I don’t have any good referrals for him in that specific niche but he built his business around that. Simultaneously I have referred plenty of people to Dan, I am a client of Dan’s, and I’m not in that niche but if I ever knew somebody who was in that niche for him I would give them his card and I would introduce them to his email because I remember. So here’s Dana McNeil, Gottman Method level three trained therapist. When an ideal client comes along for Dana those other 29 therapists and psychologists in your group are going to refer to you. My personal opinion, haha, I know we sort of gone a few different tangents here.
Dana: No, I think it’s awesome and I’m going to totally forward this podcast to them to remind them that Perry said they have to refer me. So thank you.
Perry: Hahaha, they should refer you. Because you offer something in a specific niche that other people don’t. So for anybody here who’s listening to– Let’s get back to our audience for a second. Hey everybody, think about what you offer that others do not offer. What makes you stand out? What makes you special? Because there’s something and by specializing in that niche it’s going to make it easier for people to refer to you. And you’re not going to miss out on the other potential clients, they’re still going to come to you.
Dana: I agree with that. And when you’re in that moment and owning that that’s what you really want to do, it’s that constant battle of fighting that fear that, okay, this is what I want to do and I think I have this reality not based on having enough experience in this practice or in this journey to realize that they’ll show up and that I don’t want to give in to my fear that if I don’t take these other clients or I don’t leave myself open to marketing, to anything that comes in the door, am I still going to make enough money to keep the lights on.
Perry: Right, and that’s a very challenging thing to do. I remember when we were starting Brighter Vision, we were still taking on anyone and everyone. But once we started marketing to therapists, that’s when our business exploded because we knew how to market. You know what your potential clients are. But I can completely relate with that fear. If I don’t market to everyone and anyone, am I going to be missing business? And I need all the business I can get right now. So it’s a challenging situation to be in but I think you’re navigating it incredibly well. And these three consultation groups are forming a nice foundation for you and allow you to propel yourself forward and I really think that when you embrace your niche and your specialty, you’re going to see really fantastic results.
Dana: I’m there. It’s like I can honestly say that, yeah, that’s what I do and I’m comfortable saying that, and it’s okay that I say that. And that’s who I want for my clients.
Perry: Awesome. It’s a good spot to be in.
Perry: So Dana, I’d love to be able to move on to my favorite part of the interview now. The part we like to refer to as Brighter Insights. And what I find really cool about this part of the interview is, we just had this really long winded conversation, jumping all over the place, about nicheing, and Gottman, and your consultation groups. But now let’s drill it down, let’s dive into these quick little sound bites and answers that people can use to motivate and inspire them throughout their week. Are you ready?
Perry: What or whom inspired you to become a mental health professional?
Dana: My clients that I dealt with when I was a claims adjuster. Just seeing that they needed to have that space to process so I can do my dang job.
Perry: What do you do to clear your head and get a fresh start in your day?
Dana: I have the same story every day. It’s kind of boring but it’s the thing I need to do. I get up really early, I have a bowl of oatmeal with some berries on it. I do a blessings journal, I practice yoga and I meditate. And then I go take on the world.
Perry: Love it. And you’re getting prepped for the world by that– Routines are so key I think. Especially when you have a good routine and it sets you up for your day and sets you up for a day of success.
Dana: It is my grounding so then I can go take on the world for sure.
Perry: What are some tools that you’ve used to leverage the power of technology in your private practice, so that technology is no longer a hurdle, but instead an asset?
Dana: Brighter Vision, and you didn’t tell me to say that because I am so not a tech person and I was like, thank God you’re there because I do not know how to do this. I’m right on that interesting generation that didn’t do IT but understands now that it’s important but still thinks it’s Greek. So I have been like, oh thank God, you exist. You have been that for me so thank you.
Perry: Well thank you Dana. That’s wonderful, that’s really what we love here. We love being the thank you for existing company.
Dana: You are, you are the wind beneath my wings, Perry. Thank you.
Perry: And Dana was not put up to this. I assure you guys listening. I mean, if there is a video camera on me right now, you’d see I’m like 50 shades of red right now. What’s the quote that you hold near and dear, something that has helped formulate your perspective on life or has motivated or provided guidance for you?
Dana: So there’s this book that I read, my first self-help book ever when I was in college. It was by Susan Jeffers which is still out there and is called Feel the fear and do it anyway. Have you ever heard of that book?
Perry: I have not.
Dana: It’s an awesome book and even if you never read anything inside of the book, if you got past all my highlighted pages and my dog eared covers, I just think it’s a great quote for life. You’re always going to have fear, no matter what, and go ahead and tell it, get in the seat next to you, put a seat-belt on because we’re going. You can’t do anything about it. If that’s part of who you are and you have anxiety or you have fear about things. Okay, you’re still going to do it. You just have to.
Perry: Yeah, I mean, that’s part of being an entrepreneur, right? I think that really encapsulates what an entrepreneur does. Sometimes entrepreneurs aren’t able to recognize that they’re feeling the fear. We just dive in blindly because it is pretty crazy, isn’t it? Like, what, you’re going to build a business and leave your steady paycheck and– Really?
Dana: And I’m just going to do it and–
Perry: Do it anyway.
Dana: And I’m probably going to be scared and, okay.
Perry: I love that. Would that be the book that you would recommend to our audience as well then?
Dana: Yeah, it’s a great book. I think gosh, I don’t even know when it was written. probably in like the ’60s or something, it’s got kind of a funky ’60s title on it, but I love it. And like I said, even if you just buy the book and sit it out on your desk and look at this big bold print that says, Feel the fear and do it anyway. That’s enough, you don’t have to read the book.
Perry: Absolutely, you can just like tape it up to your wall. Last question Dana, if you moved to a new city tomorrow, didn’t know a single soul there, and all that you had with you was your computer and 100 dollars to start a new private practice, what is it that you would do on your very first day?
Dana: I would get on to Facebook and find whatever social media group that I could to find out what consultation groups are in my new town, and find out when their next meetings were.
Perry: Awesome, I love it. I think that’s such a great strategy for so many reasons we’ve definitely already touched on. Dana, any parting advice for our listeners?
Dana: Feel the fear and do it anyway.
Perry: Hahaha. That’s great. Dana, where can our listeners find you to connect to learn more about you?
Dana: You can find me on Facebook, Dana McNeil, I have a professional page. I also have a website, Danamcneil.com which is boosted by Brighter Vision, thank you very much. And you can also email me at firstname.lastname@example.org.
Perry: Fantastic. Dana, thank you so much for being so generous with your time, your expertise, and your knowledge. I know I speak for everybody here who’s listening that we really appreciate all the great advice you provided and the therapist’s experience that you’ve shared.
Dana: Thanks so much, this was great, I really appreciate it.
Perry: It was our pleasure. So much fun having you on here, Dana. And of course you can find more about Dana and all the great resources she mentioned in this week’s show notes over at Brightervision.com/session30. Thank you so much for tuning in today. If you have a question for us you can email it to us at Questions@brightervision.com and of course if you’re ready to launch a website don’t hesitate to reach out to us. Brighter Vision is the worldwide leader in custom therapists website design. For less than two bucks a day we’ll build you a website that’s as unique as your practice is, take care of all of your optimization so people find you on Google, and take care of your tech support so you never have to deal with those tech headaches yourself. To learn more head on over to Brightervision.com and drop us a line through one of our contact forms. That does it for today, thanks again for listening and we’ll see you next week.